Model 19 questions

[Bryon]

I have had my Model 19's for about 3 months and they are the sweetest sounding speakers I have ever heard, a huge improvement over my rewired, recapped Klipsch Heresys.

That said, as a perpetual tweaker, I am wondering about possible ways to take them to an even higher level.

The main thing I'd like to do is to change the binding posts from the small ones on the bottom to larger ones on the back which can accomodate my heavier gauge speaker wires. Would this be advisable? Right now all I can fit are about 18 gauge zip cord and I would love to hear the 19s with better wire. They made a huge difference when I put them on my Heresys so it would be interesting to see if they can improve the sound of the 19s.

Is there any benefit to rewiring internally as well? and if anybody has experience with this, can you suggest wire and gauge?

My next question is pretty basic, but how would I go about getting into the cabinet to do this? I assume it would be through the front (the four screws on the woofer panel), am I correct in that assumption? Is the internal wire to the woofer long enough so that I can take the speaker out?

My brother and son think I'm nuts to consider changing something which sounds sooo goood but I'd like to give it a try.

thanks in advance

enjoy the ride

Bryon

[Gerald DiMauro]

Hi Bryon
I wrote to you once before about a similar topic with the 19. I too recently bought a beautiful pair a couple of months ago and I'm also in the process of tweaking them. I just bought a pair of Heathkit AS101 crossovers on the net which I haven't received yet. This is the same crossover my father has on his Heathkit/Altecs. I can't wait to hear if there is a difference from the stock crossover I have in my 19's. I'll keep you posted. I also want to use a heavier guage speaker cable. I have the connectors underneath the cab also. ( Pain in the neck ) I was checking it out to see if removing the 416 is the only way to get in there. I guess it is. If someone with knowledge about this happens to read these posts would you please be kind enough to shed some light? Much thanks in advance. And good luck, Bryon.
Sincerely
Gerald

[Altec19]

Greetings Gentlemen,
You can get into the 19's a couple different ways:

1. Remove the woofer (four fasteners). BE PREPARED TO SUPPORT A VERY HEAVY DRIVER!

2. Remove the horn (six fasteners). Leave the middle bottom screw for last. Put one hand inside the horn throat to support it while removing the last screw.

There SHOULD be ample wire to pull the drivers out far enough to disconnect them.

As a side note, there are two large bolts that hold the top and bottom cabinet boxes together. These are accessable once you remove either driver. Having two smaller boxes is sometimes handy for major work, moving, etc.

Enjoy!

[Todd W. White]

When I was an Altec contractor, we used to build Model 19 reproductions after Altec quit building them.

The crossovers, as are all GOOD ones, are designed specifically for the Model 19, and do NOT sound "right" when used on other speaker systems. Not only do they "cross" the sound "over", they also provide important equalization for the speaker, based upon it's performance characteristics, as measured anechoically.

Electronic bi-amplification doesn't always work, either, because it is often more work than it is worth to keep tweaking the electronics when you can just use the original design.

The reverse is also true - great crossovers that work fabulously well in one system do NOT always work good in another speaker system - even with similar or the same components - AT ALL!

We also built, as I have mentioned before, what I call a SUPERCrossover for the Model 19, which will be available again soon....

As for wiring, yes, better (read: BIGGER) wires internally make the Model 19 (or any speaker) sound MUCH better!

BUT BEWARE - all of those companies that sell "special sound wire" are pulling your leg: The KEY to good sounding speakers, when talking about wire, is the GAUGE! Stranded wire is best, but be sure you use BIG wire! Try not to pay more for the "latest and greatest" wire - it's not really any better than the high quality wire of the same gauge you can get at your local sound contractor!

Just use good wiring inside, making sure to maintain proper phasing, and you'll do fine...

[Altec19]

Todd makes an excellent point regarding the Model 19 crossover. There is a bit more to this particular network than just establishing an orderly transition from woofer to horn. The only description that I have read about it that offers any information beyond crossover frequency and slope is this from a February 1978 High Fidelity Magazine test of the Altec Model 19:

According to their measurements the "midrange control varies the output level from about 1.6 to 8 kHz by 8 to 10 dB and from there to 15 kHz by 3 to 4 dB. The high-frequency control has a maximum effect of about 5 dB from 10 kHz up. Some overlap between the two controls is thus apparent."

Just something to consider when swapping things around.

BTW Todd, does the SUPERCrossover implement the original Altec design with state-of-the-art components or is it a significantly different design? I would be interested to learn more about it as it becomes available. Pricing as well.

Thanks!

[myquality]

Gentlemen, i have just finished refurbing a set of 19's i bought in bits and pieces. The cabinets had the crossovers in them but one crossover had been recapped w/ CHEAP capacitors. I could tell a difference in the sound of the cabs. So-o-o-o, 1) rewired both cabs w/ 14 ga. stranded to the woofer and tweeter, 2) replaced all caps w/ SOLEN 400 volt caps in the following manner - 21uf cap (used 15 + 6 in Parrallel), 16uf cap (used 15 + 1 in Parrallel, 8uf (used 2- 4's in Parr.), 6uf (used 2- 3's in par.). The reason i did it this way is that the capacitive reactance impedance is reduced by the caps being in parrallel therby reducing insertion loss. The theory is that with these caps in par. config, you also get better transients on the notes. Now, that all said, the final result was that the original crossover did sound cleaner and sharper to MY ears. When playing my almost virgin LP of Joan Armatrading, the bells in the background wre sharp as a tack as well as having brilliance i have missed for years from other speakers. The 14 ga. helped also by reducing wiring insertion loss. Now that you have read this "War & Peace" comment, let me re-iterate that MY ears heard a difference that i dearly liked...

[myquality]

P.S. the Solen caps were the "FASTCAP" series...

[TonyBlues]

One other note, the connectors on the drivers themselves can be an issue - they are fairly poor quality and after all these years they may not have held up well.

It doesn't hurt to measure the resistance from the top of the connector to the stranded wire leading to the voice coil. Excelent cables can't make up for a 3 or 4 ohm drop here.

It made a big difference on mine.

[Gerald DiMauro]

Todd
When can we expect this SUPERcrossover to be available?
Thanks
Gerald

[gearjammer]

Just my 2 cents. I have heard about this SUPER crossover for ever and a day. I am starting to think it.s something like those Weapons of mass destuction that we are waiting for!!!